we could see a recurrence of the energy crisis, where i first met mr. peterson. which completely blindsided the government. what can we do to get this out in a clear way? >> your the chairman. >> this is a subject i have thought about. i tend to think the two possible crises -- one is a short to medium term crisis. in which, as we experience partly at the time of the debt limit and the super committee debacle, financial markets lose confidence in our country and you have eight european or many -- a mini-european stock prices. at which point it is hard to get money, interest rates go up and so forth. even in the best case, if we do not take action you have a long- term growth crisis. what does it take for us to grow? it takes investment in the future. it takes investment in equipment and r&d and science and education and infrastructure and so forth. the question many people do not want to consider is, where do we get those resources with those enormous debts? i asked our research department if they would make a reasonable prediction of how important interest costs